And they looked like fools. But its also a part of life, schedules, things going on that we should be a part of TOGETHER. But in a lot of cases and again, you cant generalize I think youre right. Even if he is talking to her. Linda: I should not have done that. Linda: No, and the consistency. It is up to him to decide. But he gets very worked up and says a lot of things out of anger that really hurt me, so I ended up walking away from the argument. Make him wonder what kind of life you have going on without him. But it may not impact him to change anything. I hope you find a good counselor to support you through this. But at this juncture you dont have much of a choice. You have done everything possible you have tried discussing it. We are just now, and I mean literally in the last couple weeks communicating in a real way, but the relationship may be so damaged now, its unfixable and I have a lot more additional trauma to deal with, from fights, lack of empathy, being called jealous or crazy or hysterical, I dont know what to believe, and Im so much farther past it, with him just now beginning to absorb the absolute terror, trauma and other effects. And when I was, I didnt take it. Because if he continues to cheat you have financially protected yourself. STOP focusing on what HES doing. He was trying his hardest to put me and our marriage first. We BS call it the cheaters manual b/c the behavior is so darn predictable. He talks about how he wants to do all these adventurous things and he doesnt want to be held back, but hes not doing anything like that. He needed to be shown the door. I have no friends or family no job since he never allow me to and with the pandemic lock down I havent had any luck. Valentines Day he gives me a card apologizing for his lack of emotion, his emptiness, unhappiness, etc. Thank you so much for your response. The affair started backing up again, but secretly, and turned into a PA. 3 months later, I found evidence of the affair on his computer while he was out with her. Not any more. Plain & simple! And living in limbo, walking on egg shells day in and day out was not a way to live. You agree to his lifestyle he comes and goes when he pleases, you dont ask questions, he hangs out in the bars without telling you, he comes home and sleeps on the couch at whatever time he chooses and you are there with never a question or doubt if he is cheating. Its like, do I want to be my laid back self and just stop bringing everything up and just hope our connection can grow without all the anger and just push my fears aside and stop bringing it up and try to be patient even if he IS seeing her and just focus on us getting along for now. Which isnt true. You need him to be a man. Its just rude, and he knows that, but he twists it all up and justifies everything he does. My CH knew the affairs were wrong and hurtful, but couldnt see the harm in keeping a young, 20 something friend. I am a bit older than you (my children are teens) but here is my observation. She said that it was a form of escape and that she would end it. He sent a text this morning just asking when the baby woke up. Just a thought. But I think for so many spouses/partners, you can tell the CS the A is over. You dont need to explain yourself. This is about you and your M and his choices and behavior. I am living proof it works. I AGAIN accused him of talking to OW, he swore he isnt, hasnt, doesnt want to. we have been together for 7 yrs and got engaged at xmas. You can listen to and/or read the transcript here: Discover the 10 Most Important Lessons about Surviving Infidelity, How to Get the Cheater Out of the Affair Fog, Real Life Hardnosed Advice on How to Stop an Affair, How to Cheat on Your Spouse Without Feeling Guilty, The Psychology of Affairs: The Games People Play and the Lies that Bind, Follow our journey as we save our marriage after an emotional affair, https://www.emotionalaffair.org/discussion-how-do-you-get-the-cheating-spouse-out-of-the-affair-fog/, Terms of Service/Privacy Policy/Affiliate Disclosure. Were not getting better like you think we are he says (from our coaching session). He has initiated sex a few times and slept in bed a few times, but the majority of time on the couch. Not only that the cheater may not come back, but if the cheater does come back, trying to resolve all of that is difficult. 3 months in the relationship he went on a boys trip to paris with his friends. WTF!! It is very difficult to talk to someone while they are in the fog. His behavior is unacceptable!!! Hes happy b/c he can continue to disrespect you and your M. And if he wants some fun or conversation from you he knows he will get it. And he has been gone all day and of course my mind goes to wondering where he could possibly be, but I just have to get used to wondering that, bc now he wont be living here anymore. In no way am I recommending telling your H you want a D unless you are prepared to do it. At some point if this is too painful and nothing changes you may want to decide to separate. I looked at him like he was crazy. Your Plan B may need to be instituted by you. Wed go out more. Its not hate or love. His behavior appears to be those of an addict / whether drugs, alcohol, etc whatever. He came to me that he has symptoms of Chlamydia and implied that I gave it to him but I checked myself and I dont have it. I begged, pleaded, threatened.you know, did everything I shouldnt have! Thank you for your advice Doug. I would of course hope that one day he will open his eyes and see this for what it is and see how much trauma he has caused, but I really doubt it. I know I went into a type of shock the day I stumbled onto my husbands EA. So even though I was led to believe our marriage survived his affair in reality his sffair was not over. We are still together b/c he realized at the last possible second I was leaving him. Of course he could be lying to me. I do not get it. I am not stopping you. I deserve so much more than this. Who is this alien life form that has taken over my sweet loving husband who wanted nothing more than to be with me? While I was busy raising and looking after everything in my house, he was busy looking after himself. The anger of the OW totally throws me off. Mine was 29yo OW when my H celebrated his 50th. At the same time I had a child involved in an emotionally abusive relationship (bf/gf). I was dating an highly ranked law enforcement figure and things were not adding up so I researched and found out he was happily married the whole time. He is supposed to move in with me in a few months and I dont know how that will work. We were cordial, didnt say much to eachother. I get nowhere asking him questions. I know he thinks im being fake and im just letting this all happen bc I want him back, but I think hes starting to pick up on me doing things for myself. But he has stayed at the house every night since then. I like him at home, so its SO hard to feel like I have to tell him to leave. Midlife Crisis: When The Fog Lifts, What Happens Next If your partner is going through a midlife crisis, youre probably anxious for signs that theyre coming out I chose to REPEATEDLY try and try and try. Because he chose to stay M. No talking or therapy or pleading or crying had any impact unfortunately. I just think as long as he is with her I cant move forward and why her?? NO YELLING! Get your plan B together now. I learned I could not. Asking no questions is good too (and smart). When I finally removed myself from his game he was left with nothing. The year this was going on my H came home from a business trip and I am saying we can get past this and he is saying I dont want to be married to you anymore. That said, some people quite frankly dont give a damn. It pains me to think 1 year ago we were on a family vacation, I was pregnant, we were happy as ever. I never mentioned it again. I am 31, married almost 3 years (together 9) with a new 5 month old baby. Even when I saw the phone logs in January, the next night, we went out with friends and had a great time. You are not HIS support system and back up plan. I find out later that there was a girl on the trip with them and he was sleeping with her before Paris , in Paris and after Paris. He was going to fix it. Either he has a serious drinking problem or many OW or something. I do think he is in communication with her though and im honestly afraid to know for sure bc I know what it feels like to see it with my own eyes in his phone, and I dont want to do that to myself again. I love him, probably too much. Financial access to all accounts and documents. I had complete control and I was telling him what would happen. Even if he isnt speaking to the OW, his head is still fogged FOR SURE with what he wants for his life. Just walked in and demanded a D. And a few hours later I told him he no longer had any control over me or my life b/c I was done playing games. My H went back to the OW a second time as he was still in the fog. Yes it might be indeed. Nothing YOU do is going to destroy your M. Whether you argue or beg or plead or ignore or act nice or are too calm none of this will have any impact. It was definitely the biggest argument we have had in a long time. I hope that it is. Ouch! As I said, that is the risk. And I left the room. It was totally not him and I was confused because I thought she had left town with another man. Its like he wants to talk to me about his life sometimes and im ok with that, but I dont know where I am supposed to enforce boundaries. You have tried everything you could. But 5 years later after DDay we have a great M. None of the past issues have resurfaced. But I also cant just live in limbo if he is giving me no inkling that we will have a future. First he stayed bc I had a bad cold and he helped through the night with the baby for 2 nights. Affair fog is an "irrational way to escape the demands of real-life and lean into pleasure." Please know it is typical cheater behavior. I drew a firm boundary and said that I wanted to work on saving our relationship. K. I suggested the lawyer so you know your rights just in case. But the cheater continues to push us away. His response? I am not sure how this works. You have heard all the same stuff we all have. (Ive told you this so im sure I sound like a broken record) and then I let him come back home and the whole cycle started again of us slowly morphing back into our relationship and he gets scared saying its going too fast and hes afraid everything will go right back to what it was. Or should I try to just not be around him and let him know im mad and skeptical and dont trust him and know I deserve more. I wish I had not been so trusting. Free therapy advice that could save your sanity. WebThe mid-life spouse cannot move that far backward into full fog again, once awakened in this way. Get yourself a good therapist or counselor. I was done with his crap and lies and cheating ways. And a happy emotionally stable parent alone is better than the hell you are living in now. It is fine if you decide the M no mo get works. I dont even want to focus on all the ways hes hurt me, I just want to feel okay in my own skin right now and maybe he will see that and feel a connection again, regardless, I cant have days like today. I am trying so hard to stay busy to make him wonder what im up to, but its just exhausting me to feel like I always have to be gone when he gets home, or be doing things. Or him telling me he isnt going to stay here, even though I JUST KICKED HIM OUT. Maybe he thinks I will just always be here even though I truly wont. Or get him to see his mistakes. H has not cracked the book yet, 6 weeks later. He continues to convince himself he is making all these great choices. I want him to know the door is open for him to leave, im not keeping him here. Dont we wish we could go back and have a do over. I cant even BELIEVE it has been so many months of dealing with this. When I was asking for is to go to counseling he said no. I was the work person, telling him to come home, help, clean, etc. Seriously?! Thats the part that stays unforgivable. Get your self together. I continued the pattern of our life like everything was okay. He is dressing differently and acting differently too..he even updated Facebook to show in a relationship with her before others even knew we were separated then he deleted me and blocked me since unblocked me hasnt added me again. I am DETERMINED to be happy with or without him, but I would be MUCH HAPPIER with him. Just letting you know I know when things dont add up. And then I lost all that power the minute I invited him back. He went mostly no-contact (she was a work friend), and then after a couple months, she threatened suicide. But its not necessarily him hating me, like I have felt. The only thing the cheater sees is their own selfish needs and desires. And that week he just seemed to be so distraught, texting me non stop, telling me how scared he was about everything, how hes not ready to divorce, etc. Unfortunately he used all of my suggestions against me with the OW. So yes at DDay2 I told my H I was D him. BTW after your married what was his schedule in terms of going out with friends? Everyone thinks im great and we are a fantastic couple so I guess thats good. So I appeased him b/c I did not think we would last and I wanted my financial protection. My husband was acting very strange and very nasty towards me. And he is on it a lot more this week which is why I am under the impression they are back speaking. I see what he does and I KNOW I dont want a husband like this, yet I still love him and would want to work on it..WHAT?! I did, after 4.5 months put my foot down and deny him access to having contact with her, but it led to further problems with me always feeling like he never chose to be with me, as I was the one who chose to stop being humiliated, instead of him refusing to choose me, then there were years and years of his denial, stonewalling, fights and further verbal abuse causing so MUCH more collateral damage. I feel good about myself. Im sorry for rambling! I told him his actions show he wants a different life, he wants to be in the bar most days after work, hanging out with people I dont know. A few weeks later we talk with our coach again, and when asked how things are going I reply They seem to be getting alittle better (or so I thought). Trust me I know what you are going through. He suddenly realized what an idiot he was and how screwed up he was. Again I think she is part of the problem but not the whole problem or ALL the problems. I think that is the only advice I can give. My H never left our home and even when he wanted a divorce the next day he would change his mind. Im not playing. He thought I would wait for him to decide what he was going to do. And I read these things and just cant seem to accomplish it. His actions are showing you what he wants. As my friend from south America says if you dont want me I dont want you. Then the next day he sent me a text after I left for work asking why I thought he was still speaking to her. I would say, six months later, yes, but was it my behaviors? But with a plan B in place, a change in power and control in your marriage and the ability to stand up for what YOU and want, you can have a happy marriage. To protect ourself. Wait and see what happens. We got into a massive fight prior to me doing the 180, I think i told you about it, and he texted me after saying we have to end this, you are too impatient and youll never be convinced im not talking to that girl.I never asked what he meant by me being impatient, but I think he basically just wants time to decide what he wants. You need a lawyer, accountant or financial planner and counselor and minister or priest (if you have one) and a good support team for you and your daughter. Im afraid that living together like we are is going to make this worse, its going to give him a bad taste in his mouth of what its like to live together and when he does leave he will only feel relief instead of sad like he did when i asked him to leave a few weeks ago. Some days things feel good, he will text me, the convo goes well, carefree, and then we both get home from work and its like the site of me is just annoyance to him. It hurts. I think at first he definitely wanted me to end it so he wouldnt feel bad about what he was doing, but now part of me feels like if I end it he will be angry but then a little sad and then just go out and find someone else. So now the OW wont even allow him to have anything to do with me, including any civil relationship so we can raise our kids. I know that today is the worst day I have had in a long time. How im SO insecure now when I never was before. unlike the exNOTbestie whore who 4 years later had to act as if she had a right to ever contact any of our family when our son died 6 weeks ago . After a couple of months, if theyre still continuing the affair and in the fog, you have to start changing your behavior somehow. I need to DO iT. We have such pleasant conversation when he gets home and we will usually hangout together with the baby and laugh and have a good time for an hour or so before I go to bed in the room and he heads to the couch. His reaction had taken him by surprise. But there was nothing I could say or do to change his thinking or behavior. Perhaps when the party girl realizes she is going to be married to someone who in essence will be financially strapped the rest of his life, she may decide hes not all that! Hanging out in bars. Im in the early stages of affair fog- my H started to act weird start of November, secret calls and text, late nights usual stuff I got our phone bill saw a number didnt know and searched on Facebook the girl he claimed to be just friends with, I approached him he denied I kicked him out he had no where to go he went and moved in with her only known her over a month living together he has admitted the affair.. I cant wrap my head around it all still. I said to him that I just do not want to be disrespected anymore. You just told me not to obsess over her anymore and here I am completely obsessing. At the time it was happening, his growing disconnection from me and lack of empathy for years makes me believe he just intended to stonewall and ignore it as long as necessary, thinking Id let it go. He calls me or keys me know if his damn train is late. Its called the Plan B. When I decided to go back to him I told myself I have forgiven him and chosen to trust him. I get so many thoughts in my head that just completely consume me and it is so frustrating. And your H now may be sure this is what he wants. THAT sets a fire inside me and I just cannot help but start to ask him questions, which annoy him and he starts saying :This will never end. The term the fog can be described as being similar to being brain washed. Hes slowly deconstructing their lives by ruining us financially. The ONLY time I saw any effort from him was when I kicked him out a few weeks ago and he became extremely scared. I told him to leave. He has completely convinced himself he is I knew him 30 years and saw him in front of me and he was a completely different person. The old line love you but not in love with you. I couldnt agree more! Dont be surprised if he either refuses or goes just to shut you up. I have purchased Love Must Be Tough by Dr. James Dobson and am reading through that. Im glad I found this blog, so I could vent safely! Get control over your life and let him see a stronger you. If he declines to discuss honestly, refuses MC and will not try to compromise, then you will soon realize you have nothing to work with. I thought we were past the A. The First Wife It almost felt like there were no problems leaving the PA. I regret getting married to him. No disrespect. Im not saying he is but he is acting like one. Go to the library or the mall and just disappear on him. Two steps forward and one step back as they say. as if they were single or not a parent. My husband was always extremely faithful, and during my pregnancy he took a job in another city and would come home on weekends, etc. I said I know youre still talking to her and I cant do it anymore. I walked away, he followed me and said I was wrong but I shut the bathroom door and got in the shower and then I told him I needed a breather and i went for a drive. I told him he was free to live with the OW for all I cared I was not stopping him. And the fact he never has done anything to make amends shows you EXACTLY who and what he is. I know that HE has to be the one to want it, HE has to be the one to want to reconnect with me, I know I cannot make him want that, and any effort to make him want that is only going to push him away. Thank you for this. Learn how your comment data is processed. Im so sick of being worried that every day a new bomb is going to drop thats going to make my stomach drop and upset me. I am sorry you are suffering through this. Out of interest IOtheMoon, where are you now? I tried leaving a reply a little bit ago but it didnt seem to work. Its a fantasy that the cheater believes is real. 1. He threw in the towel. I say my one sentence and leave the room. We have somewhat similar stories. But karma is coming and I hope you get to see what happens to people who take advantage of someones good nature. I feel like this was the best move for me right now. But would go back to treating me horribly a few days later. Continue to be supportive of her but stop begging her to do anything as you can see that isnt working. I could no longer function under the black cloud of infidelity. They can tell the OW/OM the A is over. Hahahahaha asking someone to call if they are going to be 4 hours late is so off the Wall. And the next morning im upbeat and positive and ask no questions. Not to end his A. I think to myself that I know he sees me in a different light than he sees her, I know the type of woman I am, and the type of woman that she seems to be, and I cannot comprehend WHAT it is about her that he was willing to risk it all. Hold your head up and be strong. And sooner or later you will decide what you choose to do. A father. What will after work be like today, will he go somewhere, will he tell me he has plans tomorrow, will it be a bad weekend? He had a no contact with her for about 2 months. Yeah, whatever we do is seems very wrong. You dont cheat. At age 47, after years of struggling to find security in academia, he had received tenure. I think he had probably gone to the bar for a drink or 2 which again, I dont mind in moderation, but he was happy and nice. We continued on but his trust issues just went out of control and I resent him everytime he thinks im cheating and everytime he accuses me of cheating, it drives me to go cheat. I can tell you that DDay 2 for him was a real eye opener. Continue to work on yourself both mentally and physically and prepare for the long road ahead and for the possibility that the relationship wont make it. In fact she has gone out on 2 dates with the AP since D day and has moved their conversations to Snapchat to keep them secret. I hope you have a counselor or someone you can see to support you. I think of suicide quite often now. I had enough, limbo stage is just too torturous for me. You have told him to leave but yet he does not. I made that poor choice and I let him justify his A as my fault. Its like the more we live like roomates, the more his feelings for me will dwindle I feel. 4. And i felt like I was completely doing it alone. When we left after the argument he texted me that we need to end this. I cannot continue feeling like im being walked all over, and I dont think he knowingly walks all over me, but its just how I feel when my HUSBAND cant even treat me like his wife. its crazy bc I know him so well, to think he doesnt care seems almost ridiculous for me to say, but when you look at their actions, clearly he doesnt care. If the symptoms are In reality he was seeing the OW again and he did not believe he needed it. Unfortunately I was. That was NOT a good time his whore actually was going to come to our house I said bring your retarded ni**er whore ass to my house I was waiting with my sons pitbull and I told her my husband and I that we were waiting with a pit bull (she was scared to death of ) for her she NEVER has shown her face she left state as I did inform her legally if I saw her face I would have her arrested she left NY and went to Houma La never to be heard from again. Its EXHAUSTING. I didnt want to talk about it. Let him start to see you in a different way. But now he freely admits it but at the time he was saying yes I will call if I am late but never doing it. He would be the VERY LAST guy you would suspect!!! I confronted her about it as well as her lackluster effort. I feel like he is just going on with his days totally fine. If I had that knowledge on D-day, I might have behaved differently but then again the SHOCK OF DISCOVERY is overwhelming. He said I am wrong and that he doesnt want this to keep coming up but also said it shouldnt matter, as we are not working on us right now regardless. He goes on to whine about how he has no friends at work except her. Not real. Im sorry you are hurting and yes its now 7 years and we are happily reconciled. From what I have read he is a typical cheater. Like I said, hes never waivered from saying he felt absolutely nothing for her, but he also never waivered from anything I cant prove in black & white, tangible, irrefutable evidence. Then he texted me and said he would be out of the house asap and said so you dont think im fit to be a part of the babys life?.and when he says things like this I dont understand bc I never said that. His emotional state was that rocky. My H never complained he had no freedom. Some days feel good, and some days feel like absolute torture, and I dont know if its in my head and I make it worse by getting in a weird mood, or what. But right now you are being manipulated and used. Finally, we would really like to hear from you about what you think has to happen to get the cheating spouse out of the affair fog so they can begin to behave more rationally and realistically. Its not a M. Did he fight for you? And now im of course TERRIFIED he is going to run off to OW. Leave your comments, experiences, advice, etc. Instead, Dday happened during pregnancy, I was hormonal, emotional, scared to death, and unsure how the hell I was supposed to maneuver through this. The more you detach and live for you and your baby the better things will be for you. What have I done here?. And the minute I took a stand with my H and told him to leave, there was an immediate change. ???? Its crazy, some days I feel SO good, and some days I feel SO awful. For some reason he does not remember this conversation which baffles me. I read opposing things, that its good to live together bc the communication continues, and then that its better to separate so they can see what theyre missing. Worry about what YOU need to do in these 24 hoursI wake up and read the 180 instructions almost daily just to motivate myself. I dont know. You need to get him to see that he disrespects you. You lose all credibility and power. Im struggling with finances as is, I cant rub two coins to my name. Even though I know right now I have every right to if I want to, to see if im being lied to and kick his ass out, but I just am again, TRYING to stick to this 180, and if I can stick to it and somehow show him with my actions that I am doing my own thing, maybe he will become curious. If he goes running off to the OW well that is on him!!! You tell him you want to talk openly and honestly. He got pissed off at me and defending himself and his whores must have been exhausting . Our 25th anniversary came around and HE planned a really nice overnight at a top hotel. And I feel like my value just decreases for him everyday we continue living together in a way. Because you will know you had your babys best interest at all times. He tells me I need to find someone who will love me like I need and deserve. That is why I say As are like addictions. I do not do his laundry or errands or cater to him. My H had one. But it was not even close to your situation. You just sped up the process and got yourself out of living in limbo. Get a lawyer ASAP and a financial plan B. Bestie, I agree with First Wife, but wanted to add that I think youre doing the right thing. The most hurtful words I ever said. I looked after their needs while they were younger but he is their dad and he was involved in their lives. Yet he continued seeing her and for 4 months was planning on leaving me and I had no idea. doing whatever he wants. As hard as it is to come home everyday to a house completely alone without him, I know i have to stick to it. But the 180 specifically says no matter HOW you feel today, do not show it. Maybe I should give myself a time limit of trying the 180 FULL FORCE, and if nothing changes after a month or so maybe I need to tell him to leave, if by then he hasnt. I know I am a good wife, I know he has loved me TO DEATH until all of this, I know this OW in reality does not hold a candle to me. I go from being extremely nice to him, to being bat shit crazy and screaming about OW.
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